Hi Sang,

No worries. The software is not yet ready for Rhino 6... as a matter of fact, I haven't even ordered my copy of 6 yet. I will port it within the next few months if I am able to muster the time to do so.

Arthur

Hi Arthur and Pachyderm Community,

first of all I want to say thank you for providing us with free and open-source acoustic-simulation software. I am a student from Munich currently examining the acoustical effects of more complex, parametrical shapes; Without Pachyderm that would be very, very hard. However, I am running into a few problems and it would be awesome if you could find a few minutes to help me.

I am mainly using Pachyderm to try to find out the Alpha-Values and the Scattering-Coefficient of certain structures. Talking about the scattering analysis, I know that the feature is experimental, but I still think you might be able to clear a few things up. Generally, I understand the "Calculate up to"-Property as a frequency-treshold up to which the programm will calculate the correlation-coefficient. However, when I perform the calculations, Pachyderm does not respect these thresholds.

500hz: Pachyderm calculates 0 - ~7000hz

1000hz: Pachyderm calculates 0 - ~12000hz

2000hz: Pachyderm calculates 0 - ~30000hz

4000hz: Pachyderm calculates 0 - ~55000hz

To add to the confusion the values of the scattering coefficient will also change dependent on the threshold. I will attach all the files, the results and so on for these tests. I tried this with various structures, always had only one object with an assigned material in the center and the box did completely surround the object. Also just on a side note, the program crashes for me, whenever I am performing the analysis with a Mesh (Windows 10, Rhino5).

Furthermore, I could not find a common definition of the scattering coefficient. To me the definition "percentage of rays that is not reflected geometrically (+/- 10°)" makes a lot of sense; Does Pachyderm follow a similiar definition?

Since I am pretty new to CAD in general and definetly not an expert at all in neither acoustics nor simulation I have attached all the files that I used. Even though I have been testing around quite a bit, it might just be a really stupid mistake. I also did the tests with more complex surfaces (which I am actually interested in), but since the problems do already show for this simple rotated surface it might be a good place to start. I know this is a really long text, but I already tried to shorten it as much as I can, leaving a lot of other questions open. Thank you for any help!

ScatteringTests

All the best,

David

Hi Arthur, 

I have installed the latest Pachyderm v.02. I tried to use Pachyderm mapping method option, but it always makes my rhino crash. Do you know why is that happen?

Cheers!

Hi Arthur,

Ok, right now I just want to follow this tutorial (https://vimeo.com/247022069). 

So my computer is windows x64, with the latest Rhino 5 SR 14 and Grasshopper.  Another tab works fine for me.

Hi Arthur

I seem to be having the same issue at Zaqi below

I recently installed Pachyderm and have an issue using the Pachyderm Mapping Method.

Every time that I try to open the Mapping Method tab it immediately closes my rhino, and offers to send an error report, as though rhino had just crashed. I am running it on a new Dell XPS 13, so I don't think hardware should be the issue?

I have uninstalled then reinstalled Pachyderm, but the error persists.

Can you please let me know if you've had issues like this before/know any possible solutions?

Hi Arthur,

thank you for your detailed answer and sorry for not answering for such a long time, I was just trying to make sure that I did understand everything before I answer back.

Now I do actually get quite reliably the same results and I have no issues with any crashes anymore. The only problem is that my intuition would sometimes suggest really different values. The main surface I am working with(see image) for example only delivers a scattering coefficient below 0.1 , while I would assume that it should be really high. Do you think that these calculations are right or do you have any idea what I might be doing wrong?

Also I was trying to assess the alpha-coefficient for the same pattern with holes and mineral wool behind, but decided to simplify things and just use the absorbtion designer. Do you think that the pattern itself could have a big influence on the absorbtion or is such a simplification probably all right? I was already building some manual tests to integrate its effect but it is a lot more work.
When using the Absorbtion Designer I did not find a value for the perecentage the holes take up, even though I thought, that this should be the most important value? So far I have just been playing around with the diameter of the holes and studying the results.

Thank you!

Hi David P,

I have been playing with it a bit more also. One thing I found is that if you make the radius too small, then your result will be poor. Another thing I have found is that the farther away from the sample your sphere is, the lower the magnitude of the scattering will be. This seems to suggest that maybe the base of the hemisphere should always be right at the bottom of the scattering panel.

Regarding whether or not your result is accurate or not, I can't really say. You could send me a copy of your model, though, and I could try it and give you my opinion...

Also, you made the right choice by doing the perforations in the absorption designer, rather than the scattering tool. At present, absorption can't be assigned to the boundaries of the FVM tool. One day I will figure it out, but I will need a lot of time to dedicate to it at once, and family life doesn't allow for that right now... My intuition says that the scattering probably doesn't affect the absorption much, other then that the depth of the perforations will vary with the depth of the panel, and that if you have portions of the panel that are not perforated, the final absorption of the panel will be an area-weighted average of all conditions. (I can't say for sure without studying your design in more detail, though.)

Thanks for giving this experimental tool a shot. I will help in any way I can, within the limits of the many roles I hold.

kind regards,

Arthur

Hi Arthur,

thanks for the answer, it helped me a lot to be more confident with my work. Also, please don't feel pushed by my questions, I really appreciate all the help you have given me already.

The only thing I don't understand comletely yet is your answer regarding the absorption-coefficient. I do understand the part about why the absorption designer is the right choice and whether or not the surface-structure would matter, but I am still struggling with the impact of the distances beetween each individual hole to the next hole.

I think I had phrased my question a little bit ambigious in the last post. Actually, the whole plate is perforated, but I am talking about the "frequency" of holes along the plate. By that I mean a 1m² plate could have 1000 or 100 or only 5 holes.  I know for example that 1.4 percent of the plate are holes and the rest is massive. With which setting could I compensate for this frequency of holes? Or is there a fundamental flaw in my thought process?

I would love to send you the model and hear your opinion about it, but would prefer to keep that private, since it is not my own creation and I am just testing around with it. Can you accept my friend request here, so I can send you a private message?

Thank you in advance!

Hi,

I know understood that it is actually the hole pitch that defines the distances beetween the individual holes, I could calculate that from the percentage of the holes and therefore that works for me now. Sorry for my misunderstanding and thank you so much for your help!

Besides that, I would still love to hear your opinion on the calculations, if I can send you those privately.

All the best

David

Hi Arthur,

Is there any you'd be able to at an issue myself and others have encountered with the ITDG component? At present in all simualtions it outputs a value of '0.0' despite other components successfully computing their respective paramters,

Many thanks,

Hi,

I see that Zaqi Fathis and Rowan Browan have the same issue as me. Every time I open the Pachyderm Mapping Method tab, Rhino 5 crashes instantly, even though the file was empty. All the other tabs open without any problem. I'm on windows 10 on Parallels with a Mac. 

Did anyone find out what causes the bug and how to fix it?

Hi,

It isn't clear to me what is causing the issue, but Rhino has always had trouble on Mac with Parallels. Since I am unable to reproduce the issue of the mapping tab crashing rhino, I can't really comment on it.

Arthur

I have a similar issue with the mapping function running Rhino 5 on Windows 10, the pachyder_mapping command does nothing when it is executed and when you try to open it up in a Rhino tab it just crashes. Does anyone have any insights or remdies of this problem?

Many thanks,

Alex

Hi Alex,

I have witnessed that one with one other user, but I have not been able to reproduce it on my machine... ergo, I have no idea what causes it.

Answer me this - could you please provide a list of which plugins you have installed in Rhino? I wonder if it is a GUID conflict...

Arthur

Some semi good news - I finally have access to a computer which manifests the problem with the Mapping Interface. (Remember that it doesn't happen on my development machines).

I will try and work it out within the next week or so.

Arthur

Hi Arthur,

For for further info, I removed all other Rhino components yet still faced the same problem after testing on two machines:

Bootcamped iMac running windows 10 and a machine running windows 8, experienced same problem with both. Let me know if you would like me to test any further configurations to help de-bug!

Best regards,

Alex

I figured out what is wrong. One of the components seems to be initializing with a width of zero, which results in exception. This only happens on some computers, and the reason is still mysterious.

I have changed the code so that this is no longer an issue. I will try and release it later this week, along with fixes for some of the other issues that have been brought up recently.

Thanks for reporting!

Arthur

Hello,

Is Pachyderm working in Rhino 6?

Thank you!

Andrei

Hi. I'm working on it. I have 3 running issues with rhino 6 on the Serengeti forum. When I have everything settled, I'll post the new version.

Arthur

Hi Arthur,

I have the same issue with Pachyderm Mapping Method tab. My Rhino crashes instantly when I try to open it. It is installed in Windows 10. I noticed you figured this issue. Is it possible to share this new code, please?

Thank you very much.

Hi Arthur, I just downloaded the latest version of Pachyderm. The «apply material» button seems to have disappeared. Is there a new way to apply them or might it be just a problem with my Parallel again? If it's the case, is there any way to get the previous versions?

Thank you for all your hard work!

Where to download this plugin

Hi Arthur,

I am trying apply material and I am having the same problem of Sandrine. If I click on the library, I can't choose apply, the button is not there like the tutorial. I am also curious to know how to apply material throug grasshopper canvas. And Finally, to be sure about the applied material, how can I check its application to a surface?

Thanks in advance

David

Hi Arthur,

I've find an issue about "mapping surface".

When i create the output, the result of the mapping corresponds to higher values to the ones calculated with hybrid method.

Practically, the results i obtain correspond to the ones i would have with a source of at least 120 dbA SWL, even if i inserted a "speaking person".

Moreover, i can't create output for all the parameter that are not SPL.

Can you help me?

Thank you in advance,

Fabio

hey arthur

i'm having problem to load library in the rhino interface . i mean to say i'm not able to assign the material there's no option of apply material in pachyderm acoustic where we get all those impulse material and analysis ..

please help its urgent 

and also im not getting any material in the list . what to do???

Hi Prakati,

In the latest version, I removed the "Apply" button by popular request. Instead, as soon as you click a library item, it applies it to the selected layer automatically.

For some, that was less confusing.

But is the issue actually that you don't have a library? It's hard to know why without looking at your computer. Most likely, the file is missing. Here is where it would be normally:

C:\Users\[Username]\AppData\Roaming\Pachyderm

In case it is indeed missing, please take mine: Pach_Materials_Library.txt

There isn't a whole lot in there - it is up to the users to fill it. But hopefully this helps.

Arthur

hey arthur 

thanks for replying . i have one more doubt how to adjust the interface of the call absorption . i have already tried to adjust the screen resolution it doesn't fit . what to do ? 

thanks 

Hi Prakrati,

It sounds like your screen is a bit small. sorry about that. I'm afraid I don't have a good solution for you at this time.

Maybe you can find a larger screen somewhere. (I'll see how small I can allow it to get for a future release... I think there was a limit in terms of the legibility of the graphics, though).

Arthur

Arthur

hey arthur im having issue with pulling the rhino geometry to polyscene . its showing this error please help 

at every component im facing this error 

Hi Authur

I am study in master degree and i am researching about Changing Acoustic in Multi functional space  

I have some issue about "Ray tracing" Component in grasshopper when i put all the value and then the Ray tracing will show a message "Preparing Threads" for long time and then clash and not responding and another case it can work but just some Ray that reached and then it clash again. I don't know why this component can not run. How solve this problem ? what should i do ?

ps. I use Minimum Convergence so Do i no need to put value in Number of Rays ?

Thank you

Hi Arthur thanks for your great plugin and hi everyone,

on "pachyderm hybrid models" window

-I am facing some problems on opening analysis data that was previously saved as a file type ".pac1" from pachyderm.

-Also, I find a problem at the material section,  when I assign a custom material on a layer, it will automatically reassign this material to all the project layers. So I am using the "object acoustic setting" at rhino properties to input the absorption material data.

I am running latest pachyderm on windows Rhino 6.

I am just wondering if this is something known or is me doing something wrong.

Best regards

Hi Surakist,

Sorry for the long wait. I didn't get a notice that you had posted... Happens sometimes.

First off, what pachyderm is doing is very computationally intensive, so unless the window outright disappears, it has not crashed. You should just wait for it to complete what it is doing.

Second, it is likely that you are using very low absorption coefficients. You should reconsider whether those coefficients are the right ones. There are few places on earth that have that much reverberation.

Let me know if you have additonal questions.

Arthur

Hi Petros,

I just tested both of those systems, and they seem to be working fine (both openings of .pac1 files, and custom absorption coefficients). However, if you have found something I can't reproduce, the best thing you could do is send me the .pac1 file, so that I can look into it.

Regarding the absorption coefficients, try again. I'm very certain that system works fine.

Arthur

Hi again Arthur,

Thank for replying, my bad indeed that material coefficient was able to assign data just fine as you mentioned.

I am facing a different problem atm,

Trying to use SurfaceSource, every time I assign a surface as a source Pachyderm won't run the calculations (hybrid model>impulse>calculate solution). The same 3D model will run the calculation with the other sources (dodecahedron, speaking person)

I am a) inserting SurfaceSource b) selecting a source surface c) choosing SPL for every 62.5/.../8000Hz, and I do get the dodecahedron speaker icon over the selected surface. When I hit calculate solution nothing is happening no msg in the command line.

Also when I am in Rhino environment Properties (Rhino Properties>Sound Source Control) when selecting the Surface source the octave/SWL/SPL is not present, at the same time if I choose a different source the chart will present.

Thank you in advance

Hello Arthur,

I'm trying to do a calculation inside a small chamber music hall (~490sqm). After applying a material to every surface and preparing everything (as told in this tutorial https://vimeo.com/247018860) I click on Calculate Solution and the button grays out and the message "Solution exception:Index was out of range. Must be non-negative and less than the size of the collection. Parameter name: index" appears and I can't try again until restarting Rhino. I know this has happened before but I can't find a solution. I have a fairly complex geometry with reflective panels hanging from the ceiling, I don't know if it may be affecting. Thank you in advance.

Hi Sebastian,

If your model is very complicated, this may be the reason. Occasionally, Rhino encounters a piece of geometry that can't generate a mesh, and then it fails pachyderm. I've tried to catch some of these cases, but some still elude us.

I can help you troubleshoot the model if you like. Can you send me the file to info@orase.org?

Arthur

Hi, unfortunately none of the two links to the website work. Both links are broken or lead me to a page with a password protection. 

Hi Konsta,

I think I need more information. Would you mind emailing me a detailed explanation of the issue you are dealing with?

Info@orase.org

Thanks,

Arthur