w elements (e.g. only fabric between 2 radial cable). But if I try to simulate a completely whole structure like picture below + if I trying to model a material that has more degree subdivision + adding diagonals (as resistance to shear deformation which causes the creases like your example of tablecloth drop), then I have huge problem to deal with my hardware.
(I am using Intel Xeon 4 cores, 2.93GHz with 4GB RAM and running in Win7 in 64 bit but with Rhino 32 bit.)
(Roof geometry can be completely asymmetrical, so let’s assuming that we can’t array the resulting geometries!)
There are some discussions about how to increase the processing power of grasshopper:
http://www.grasshopper3d.com/forum/topics/is-there-a-plan-to-support-multicore-in-the-future
http://www.grasshopper3d.com/forum/topics/performance-of-grasshopper?
http://www.grasshopper3d.com/forum/topics/grasshopper-cpu-optimization
As I read that the GH is single threaded, we could over clocking the CPU + give lot of RAM.
I am curious if Kangaroo and other Apps are following the same performance-rule (single thread) like Rhino/ G.H? And what would be the key-feature to increase the power of Rhino/GH/Kangaroo in order to process the case I mentioned before (completely retractable roof)?
- Which level of CPU? Or constraint of CPU over clocking when necessary and capacity of RAM)
- How fine tuning my PC for best performance? (Parallel computing, c-flex…)
- is GPU a matter? (E.g. in Animation standard: Nvidia CUDA Quadro 4000+)
Or probably just a suggestion of workstation ;-)
Sorry I am not expertise of computer technical…
Thanks!
…
Added by Jon to Kangaroo at 3:31am on June 27, 2014
All example files below are updated and compatible only with Wasp 0.1.0
Download it here: Food4Rhino
01_Basic_Aggregation
02_Multi_Part_Aggregation
03_Field_Driven_Aggregation
04_Part_Geometry_Rep
folder. There are several possibilities for this.
The first that comes to mind is using symbolic links (also known as symlinks). They are like a special kind of shortcut. Whereas a shortcut is a small file itself that links to another location, a symlink is a link that to the operating system and pretty much anything else is indistinguishable from the actual thing. That's why a certain care has to be taken with them, but they are used by the OS much more than might be obvious at first. I have used them on OS X a lot (and in fact all of Time Machine works almost entirely through the use of symlinks). There is a good article on how to use Symlinks easily on Windows as well, using the Link Shell Extension.
So once it's installed you can go to your Grasshopper folder in Roaming and pick it as the link source like so:
Then you change to a location in for example your Dropbox or wherever else you fancy. I have a folder inside my personal Dropbox (we use Dropbox for Business at work, thats why I have 2 Dropbox folders), there is a folder called Apps, which is used by all sorts of Apps that sync using Dropbox. So just right-click in there and create a symlink like so:
So now it will create the symlink and when you double-click it, it will contain the contents of your Grasshopper folder and start syncing:
Sure enough, after some uploading you now have your folder in Dropbox and continually updating:
I will leave this now and see how I get on, but it should be fine and shouldn't cause any issues. Now doing this the other way round, for example to sync the folder on a second computer, that might be another story as things like permissions start to come into play, although it should theoretically work. I have done similar things in the past with other software, but Dropbox is not the best in keeping permissions. Or rather in most cases you DONT want the permissions to stay the same, but for them to be changed to whoever the user is on a different computer and that does not always work as expected. But worth a try. I don't have another computer at hand to try this. On the other computer you would to the steps in opposite order and pick the folder in the Dropbox as the link source and then drop the symlink in the roaming folder (rename the Grasshopper folder that is already in there, so in case it doesnt work you can delete the symlink and rename it back to what it was).
This should theoretically also work with other cloud backups or a file server, but I have not tried those.
You can delete the symlink in the dropbox without problems and it will just delete the link. If you delete something in the Grasshopper folder inside the dropbox it will also be deleted in the roaming folder.
Disclaimer: No guarantees, do this at your own risk, backup your grasshopper folder just in case, be careful with symlinks and use them sparingly, take notes of what you are doing, especially when doing this on more than one computer.
I know on OS X there are several tools specifically for Dropbox that basically do exactly the same like MacDropAny, I am sure there is similar stuff for Windows.…
Added by Armin Seltz at 2:56am on January 25, 2016
whole design intent, but this is what Inventor is good at. The way it packages bits of 'scripted' components into 'little models' that can be stored and re-assembled is central to MCAD working.
The Inventor model shown is almost 5 years old. We don't model like that any more, however it does offer a good idea of general MCAD modeling approaches.
iParts is useful in certain situations, it could've been useful in the above model, its usefulness is often in function of the quantity of variants/configurations.
So much is scripted in GH, maybe it should also be possible to script/define/constrain/assist the placement/gluing of the results?
...
Starting point: I think we are talking across purposes. AFAIK, the solving sequence of GH's scripted components is fixed. It won't do circular dependencies... without a fight. The inter-component dependencies not 'managed' like constraints solvers do for MCAD apps.
Components and assemblies are individual files in MCAD.
Placement of these within assemblies in MCAD is a product of matrix transforms and persistent constraints. There is no bi-directional link, the link is unidirectional (downflow only), because of the use of proxies.
Consequently, scripting the placement of components is irrelevant in GH, unless you decide that each component needs to be contained in its own separate file.
This also brings up the point that generating components and assemblies in MCAD is not as straightforward. In iParts and iAssemblies, each configuration needs to be generated as a "child" (the individual file needs to be created for each child) before those children can be used elsewhere.
You notice the dilemma, if you generate 100 parts, and then you realize you only need 20, you've created 80 extra parts which you have no need for, thus generating wasteful data that may cause file management issues later on.
GH remains in a transient world, and when you decide to bake geometry (if you need to at all), you can do that in one Rhino file, and save it as the state of the design at that given moment. Very convenient for design, though unacceptable for most non-digital manufacturing methods, which greatly limits Rhino's use for manufacturing unless you combine it with an MCAD app.
One of the reasons why the distributed file approach makes perfect sense in MCAD, is that in industry you deal with a finite set of objects. Generative tools are usually not a requirement. Most mechanical engineers, product engineers and machinists would never have any use for that.
The other thing that MCAD apps like Inventor have, is the 'structured' interface that offers up all that setting out information like the coordinate systems, work planes, parameters etc in a concise fashion in the 'history tree'. This will translate into user speed. GH's canvas is a bit more freeform. I suppose the info is all there and linked, so a bit of re-jigging is easy. Also, see how T-Flex can even embed sliders and other parameter input boxes into the model itself. Pretty handy/fast to understand, which also means more speed.
True. As long as you keep the browser pane/specification tree organized and easy to query.
:)
Would love to understand what you did by sketching.
I'll start by showing what was done years ago in the Inventor model, and then share with you what I did in GH, but in another post.
Let's use one of the beams as an example:
We can isolate this component for clarity.
Notice that I've highlighted the sectional sketch with dimensions, and the point of reference, which is in relation to the CL of the column which the beam bears on. The orientation and location of the beam is already set by underlying geometry.
Here's a perspective view of the same:
The extent of the beam was also driven by reference geometry, 2 planes offset from the beam's XY plane, driven by parameters from another underlying file which serves as a parameter container:
Reference axes and points are present for all other components, here are some of them:
It starts getting cluttered if you see the reference planes as well:
Is I mentioned earlier, over time we've found better ways to define and associate geometry, parameters, manage design change, improving the efficiency of parametric models. But this model is a fair representation of a basic modeling approach, and since an Inventor-GH comparison is like comparing apples and oranges anyways, this model can be used to understand the differences and similarities, for those interested.
I haven't even gotten to your latest post yet, I will eventually.…
Added by Santiago Diaz at 10:36am on February 26, 2011
GH works (b) creating feature driven very complex parametric parts manually (the trad way) ... and then combining them in assemblies derived from (a) with components derived from (b).
Exactly what Generative Components does (if we forget the bugs, the extremely slow response, the lack of any development, the bugs, the bugs and finally the bugs).
Creating collections (libraries) of components in Rhino it's pointless since he doesn't support feature driven modeling. This means constrained driven geometry (solids NOT surfaces - another reason for totally excluding Rhino for the scope) that describe the actual components (that belong to nested assemblies etc etc).
So back to (a) : The only thing that Rhino/GH can do (in real-life) is to outline an abstract topology with "basic/primitive" geometry in place (= lines in this case). Exactly what this WIP script does, in fact. Of course it can do calculations as well (clash detection AND drilling axis related stuff).
But never say never: let's inspect an example from some WIP project (AECOSim + Generative Components) of mine to see what can GH/Rhino additionally do (in real-life):
Imagine a rigid "ring" (the truss shown) that manages tensional forces (via cables) in a "ring like" formed tensile membrane combo. Membranes (inverse cones) pull the ring thing downwards and mast attached cables pull it upwards = equilibrium (or disaster if some cable fails, he he).
So assume that the abstract layout (lines, that is) is made with a similar GH script with the one posted here. Rhino can't even imagine doing the parametric fasteners shown - thus we exclude them from the equation.
But GH could(?) "indirectly" feed a proper CAD app (from AECOSim to CATIA) with "seed" information in order to help making the components and the assemblies of components.
For instance assume that every truss linear member is a classic MERO system (ball - sleeve - cone - tube -cone -sleeve - ball). It's pointless to create (in GH) and bake a nested Block structure with "real geometry" (surfaces, that is) and export it via STEP : we can export lines + coordinate systems instead (ACS) ... that could be sufficient for AECOSim to replace "parts containing lines + ACS" with real-life "parts containing constrained/feature driven solid objects".
So the real challenge here is to mastermind a suitable nested block structure (and an equivalent GH_structure) that could pass the right assembly/component info.
I'll be back soon with some add-on script that takes truss lines and makes them MERO style "surfaces" in order to practically outline the issue(s) and the goal.
…
e chosen to dive into Grasshopper. I’m about 6 months in. If some of my comments are completely off, please take that to mean that a feature is too inaccessible to a newish user rather that it’s just missing, as I may have stated.
One of my primary pain points is this. Things that can be done in other programs are invariably easier in other programs. This is a big enough issue that I doubt there’s an easy solution that an armchair qb like myself can offer up.
The interface:
I’ve used a lot of 3D programs. I’ve never encountered one as difficult as grasshopper. What in other programs is a dialog box, is 8 or 10 components strung together in grasshopper. The wisdom for this I often hear among the grasshopper community is that this allows for parametric design. Yet PTC (Parametric Technology Corp.) has been doing parametric design software since 1985 and has a far cleaner and more intuitive interface. So does SolidWorks, Inventor, CATIA, NX, and a bunch of others.
In the early 2000's, when parametric design software was all the rage, McNeel stated quite strongly the Rhino would remain a direct modeler and would not become a parametric modeler. Trends come. Trends go. And the industry has been swinging back to direct modeling. So McNeel’s decision was probably ok. But I have to wonder if part of McNeel’s reluctance to incorporate some of the tried and proven ideas of other parametric packages doesn't have roots in their earlier declaration to not incorporate parametrics.
A Visual Programming Language:
I read a lot about the awesomeness and flexibility of Grasshopper being a visual programming language. Let’s be clear, this is DOS era speak. I believe GH should continue to have the ability to be extended and massaged with code, as most design programs do. But as long as this is front and center, GH will remain out of reach to the average designer.
Context sensitivity:
There is no reason a program in 2014 should allow me to make decisions that will not work. For example, if a component input is in all cases incompatible with another component's output, I shouldn't be able to connect them.
Sliders:
I hate sliders. I understand them, but I hate ‘em. I think they should be optional. Ya, I know I can r-click on the N of a component and set the integer. It’s a pain, and it gives no feedback. The “N” should turn into the number if set. AAAnd, sliders should be context sensitive. I like that the name of a slider changes when I plug it into something. But if I plug it into something that'll only accept a 1, a 2, or a 3, that slider should self set accordingly. I shouldn't be able to plug in a “50” and have everything after turn red.
Components:
Give components a little “+” or a drawer on the bottom or something that by clicking, opens the component into something akin to a dialog box. This should give access to all of the variables in the component. I shouldn't have to r-click on each thing on a component to do all of the settings.
And this item I’m guessing on. I’m not yet good enough at GH to know if this may have adverse effects. Reverse, Flatten, Graft, etc.; could these be context sensitive? Could some of these items disappear if they are contextually inappropriate or gray out if they're unlikely?
Tighter integration with Rhino:
I'm not entirely certain what this would look like. Currently my work flow entails baking, making a few Rhino edits, and reinserting into GH. I question the whole baking thing, btw. Why isn't it just live geometry? That’s how other parametric apps work. Maybe add more Rhino functionality to GH. GH has no 3D offset. I have to bake, offsetserf, and reinsert the geometry. I’m currently looking at the “Geometry Cache” and “Geometry Pipeline” components to see if they help. But I haven't been able to figure it out. Which leads me to:
Update all of the documentation:
I'm guessing this is an in process thing and you're working toward rolling GH from 0.9.00075 to 1.0. GH was being updated nearly weekly earlier this year. Then it suddenly stopped. If we're talking weeks before a full release, so be it. But if we're looking at something longer, a documentation update would help a lot. Geometry Cache and Geometry Pipeline’s help still read “This is the autogenerated help topic for this object. Developers: override the HtmlHelp_Source() function in the base class to provide custom help.” This does not help. And the Grasshopper Primer 2nd Ed. was written for GH 0.60007.
Grasshopper is fundamentally a 2D program:
I know you'll disagree completely, but I'm sticking to this. How else could an omission like offsetsurf happen? Pretty much every 3D program in existence has this. I’m sure I can probably figure out how to deconstruct the breps, join the curves, loft, trim, and so forth. But does writing an algorithm to do what all other 3D programs do with a dialog box seem reasonable? I'm sure if you go command by command you'll find a ton on such things.
If you look at the vast majority of things done in GH, you'll note that they're mostly either flat or a fundamentally 2D pattern on a warped surface.
I've been working on a part that is a 3D voronoi trimmed to a 3D model. I've been trying to turn the trimmed voronoi into legitimate geometry for over a month without success.
http://www.grasshopper3d.com/profiles/blogs/question-voronoi-3d-continued
I’ve researched it enough to have found many others have had the exact same problem and have not solved it. It’s really not that conceptually difficult. But GH lacks the tools.
Make screen organization easier:
I have a touch of OCD, and I like my GH layout to flow neatly. Allow input/output nodes to be re-ordered. This will allow a reduction in crossed wires. Make the wire positions a bit more editable. I sometimes use a geometry component as a wire anchor to clean things up. Being able to grab a wire and pull it out of the way would be kinda nice.
I think GH has some awesome abilities. I also think accessing those abilities could be significantly easier.
~p…
hopper. The basic workflow relies on two main components :
Loop Start
Loop Start
Where Loop End sends data back to Loop Start.
Changelog
0.4 Fourth release
> Two new loop modes added - fast and internalized. > Cleaned up the interface of the classic components. > Added time buffer. > Each loop mode has now an optional timeout value, preventing the loop to run for too long.
0.26 Third release
> "Unable to restart" bug fixed. >"Browse history" component added. > Refreshed icons. > Changes under the hood (preventing potential bugs). > Loop Start counter output caused Grasshopper to slow a bit, now it won't draw the counter value as output name. > Minor bugs fixed.
0.2 Second release
> Backward compatible with the GH 0.9.0014 > ~60% of the code rewritten. gt; Added support for multiple data streams (use ZUI). > "While" loops made possible with a new "Exit" input in Loop End. Set to True to exit the loop. > Double click the Loop End to pause/unpause the loop. > Changed layout for clarity. > Renamed "Steps" to "Repeats". > Now "Repeats" do not restart the loop when changed. Therefore you can always increase the loop count without wiping the data. > Trigger input supported only one trigger value, fixed. > Probably faster. > Lots of bugs fixed...
0.1 The first release
>First public release.
…
as the design table? I think this could be 'drawn' and constrained in Inventor in a lot less time. I know the GH model would have a lot of flexibility, but in this case, what can you do with it that wasn't provided by an Inventor model?
Only the 27 lines mentioned were modeled in Rhino, the rest is modeled with GH.
The 5 hrs involved thinking about the approach, defining vertical lines, tilts, elevations, pitch of the roof, intersections.
Once I had decided what my approach would be, and tested the logic with those first lines, points and data path arrangements, it only took one more hour to get to this:
Which is actually quite fast, compared to MCAD workflows.
If you already have components (columns, beams, etc.) modeled and ready to drop into a project, of course it is lightning fast to model simple projects like this example.
I am not as much interested in those situations, because improving efficiency is straightforward and obvious.
I'm more interested in situations where there are no pre-defined families of objects, in which case you need to start from scratch.
The GH model I'm showing is modeled from scratch, except for the 27 lines in Rhino.
Here's one obvious advantage to modeling with GH, once the definition is set-up, it's virtually effortless to change inputs and alter the overall design. Here's an example, lets say we wanted to extend the roof 3 more units, curling away from the original direction.
Plan view before:
And after:
An MCAD app will also allow you to do this, as long as the location of additional elements follows the existing geometric method of definition. What happens if you want completely change the way you locate columns, roof slope, intersection points?
In MCAD, you'll need to re-model the underlying geometry, which will take the same effort as the first round. In GH, this process is not only much faster, it's open to algorithmic approaches, galapagos, etc. and it just takes some simple re-wiring to have all down-stream elements associate themselves to this new geoemtric definition.
For instance, here's the same definition applied to two curves, which are divided in GH, the resulting points are used as a starting point for lines directed at normal from curves.
This is not so easy to do in MCAD.…
Added by Santiago Diaz at 7:55pm on February 24, 2011
t. So here we go!
1. Honeybee is brown and not yellow [stupid!]...
As you probably remember Honeybee logo was initially yellow because of my ignorance about Honeybees. With the help of our Honeybee expert, Michalina, now the color is corrected. I promised her to update everyone about this. Below are photos of her working on the honeybee logo and the results of her study.
If you think I'm exaggerating by calling her a honeybee expert you better watch this video:
Thank you Michalina for the great work! :). I corrected the colors. No yellow anymore. The only yellow arrows represent sun rays and not the honeybee!
2. Yellow or brown, W[here]TH Honeybee is?
I know. It has been a long time after I posted the initial video and it is not fun at all to wait for a long time. Here is the good news. If you are following the Facebook page you probably now that the Daylighting components are almost ready.
Couple of friends from Grasshopper community and RADIANCE community has been helping me with testing/debugging the components. I still think/hope to release the daylighting components at some point in January before Ladybug gets one year old.
There have been multiple changes. I finally feel that the current version of Honeybee is simple enough for non-expert users to start running initial studies and flexible enough for advanced users to run advanced studies. I will post a video soon and walk you through different components.
I think I still need more time to modify the energy simulation components so they are not going to be part of the next release. Unfortunately, there are so many ways to set up and run a wrong energy simulation and I really don’t want to add one new GIGO app to the world of simulation. We already have enough of that. Moreover I’m still not quite happy with the workflow. Please bear with me for few more months and then we can all celebrate!
I recently tested the idea of connecting Grasshopper to OpenStudio by using OpenStudio API successfully. If nothing else, I really want to release the EnergyPlus components so I can concentrate on Grasshopper > OpenStudio development which I personally think is the best approach.
3. What about wind analysis?
I have been asked multiple times that if Ladybug will have a component for wind study. The short answer is YES! I have been working with EFRI-PULSE project during the last year to develop a free and open source web-based CFD simulation platform for outdoor analysis.
We had a very good progress so far and our rockstar Stefan recently presented the results of the work at the American Physical Society’s 66th annual DFD meeting and the results looks pretty convincing in comparison to measured data. Here is an image from the presentation. All the credits go to Stefan Gracik and EFRI-PULSE project.
The project will go live at some point next year and after that I will release the Butterfly which will let you prepare the model for the CFD simulation and send it to EFRI-PULSE project. I haven’t tried to run the simulations locally yet but I’m considering that as a further development. Here is how the component and the logo looks like right now.
4. Teaching resources
It has been almost 11 months from the first public release of Ladybug. I know that I didn't do a good job in providing enough tutorials/teaching materials and I know that I won’t be able to put something comprehensive together soon.
Fortunately, ladybug has been flying in multiple schools during the last year. Several design, engineering and consultant firms are using it and it has been thought in several workshops. As I checked with multiple of you, almost everyone told me that they will be happy to share their teaching materials; hence I started the teaching resources page. Please share your materials on the page. They can be in any format and any language. Thanks in advance!
I hope you enjoyed/are enjoying/will enjoy the longest night of the year. Happy Yalda!
Cheers,
-Mostapha
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