DP ($$$ aside), GC, and Grasshopper. Arthur’s original question is very important
and the exact question (and hopefully answer) I was hoping to find on a
forum.
“How to take intelligent 3D parametric generative design models (scripting, etc.) into 2D documents?" Or, deliver the 3D design for evaluation, bid, construction, etc.
I am intrigued by Jon’s comments in the same thread and would like to know how I can learn more about the process (and
pitfalls) of turning over a 3D digital generative models to a contractor/fabricator.
Are there any industry guidelines established I could use as a reference to guide our firm through this type of uncharted territory?
Arthur’s question is very reminiscent of 10 years ago when I was frustrated with the amount of time spent on the development of a 3D model design (physical and/or virtual) only to have to wipe the table clean and start the process all over again in 2D in order to document the project for delivery. From this I jumped head first into BIM and Revit, vowing never to go back to unintelligent 2D line work. I am now working on Bentley software (v8i: Microstation and Bentley Architecture) with the access and desire to venture into Generative Components. I am very intrigued by Rhino/Grasshopper primarily with the apparent ease of use and available resources assisting in the learning process – something not really available with Bentley.
In hindsight, as I am doing my software research I think the current use of Revit and BA (Bentley Architecture) are more of a “bridge”
between the past (decades of digital 2D work, i.e. AutoCAD) and where hopefully
we all will be someday in the near future (100% 3D modeling, i.e. Digital
Project??). Without having the experience
it would appear that DP/CATIA (PLM software) are closer to this than any other
type of software. As complicated as the
industry standards are for the automobile and airline industry, I feel we
(architectural industry and others) are heading in a similar direction with
total understanding (PLM/ Evidence Based Design) of a design (a whole other topic). If anything I think the market will begin to
demand it sooner or later.
Gehry (DP) article NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/business/11gehry.html
I know these type of broad discussions (software vs. software) can be blown out of proportion on forums, but I am would like to read
the pulse of those who are already in the trenches (using Grasshopper, CATIA, Digital Project, Generative Components, others??) and hear your thoughts. Just as valuable would be other threads,
industry articles/reviews of 3D parametric generative design software.
Thanks,
Boyd…
greatly appreciate it!!
You can write the number of the question and write your answer next to it, example:
1) a
2) c
3) a) Washington University in St. Louis
4) 2 weeks (1week+1week shipping)
5) 130
6) b
7) b
The survey questions are as follows:
1)
Did you 3D print before?
5)
How much did it cost (in dollars)?
a.
Yes, for a school project
a.
Between 20 & 50
b.
Yes, for a personal project
b.
Between 50 & 80
c.
Between 80 & 120
2)
Print size
d.
Please specify if otherwise: _____ dollars
a.
Between 2 & 6 cubic inches
b.
Between 6 & 12 cubic inches
6)
Do you think the price was expensive?
c.
Between 12 & 20 cubic inches
a.
Not at all
d.
Please specify if otherwise: ____cubic inches
b.
A little bit expensive
c.
Very expensive
3)
Where did you print your object?
a.
School
7)
Were you satisfied with the printed object?
b.
Outside school: _________________
a.
Yes, it was a great print without problems
b.
Not bad, some issues
4)
How long did it take to print?
c.
I was not satisfied, very bad quality
a.
___ days
b.
___ weeks
Thank you very much to all!!
PS: If you did many 3D prints, you can post multiple answers.
Wassef…
whole design intent, but this is what Inventor is good at. The way it packages bits of 'scripted' components into 'little models' that can be stored and re-assembled is central to MCAD working.
The Inventor model shown is almost 5 years old. We don't model like that any more, however it does offer a good idea of general MCAD modeling approaches.
iParts is useful in certain situations, it could've been useful in the above model, its usefulness is often in function of the quantity of variants/configurations.
So much is scripted in GH, maybe it should also be possible to script/define/constrain/assist the placement/gluing of the results?
...
Starting point: I think we are talking across purposes. AFAIK, the solving sequence of GH's scripted components is fixed. It won't do circular dependencies... without a fight. The inter-component dependencies not 'managed' like constraints solvers do for MCAD apps.
Components and assemblies are individual files in MCAD.
Placement of these within assemblies in MCAD is a product of matrix transforms and persistent constraints. There is no bi-directional link, the link is unidirectional (downflow only), because of the use of proxies.
Consequently, scripting the placement of components is irrelevant in GH, unless you decide that each component needs to be contained in its own separate file.
This also brings up the point that generating components and assemblies in MCAD is not as straightforward. In iParts and iAssemblies, each configuration needs to be generated as a "child" (the individual file needs to be created for each child) before those children can be used elsewhere.
You notice the dilemma, if you generate 100 parts, and then you realize you only need 20, you've created 80 extra parts which you have no need for, thus generating wasteful data that may cause file management issues later on.
GH remains in a transient world, and when you decide to bake geometry (if you need to at all), you can do that in one Rhino file, and save it as the state of the design at that given moment. Very convenient for design, though unacceptable for most non-digital manufacturing methods, which greatly limits Rhino's use for manufacturing unless you combine it with an MCAD app.
One of the reasons why the distributed file approach makes perfect sense in MCAD, is that in industry you deal with a finite set of objects. Generative tools are usually not a requirement. Most mechanical engineers, product engineers and machinists would never have any use for that.
The other thing that MCAD apps like Inventor have, is the 'structured' interface that offers up all that setting out information like the coordinate systems, work planes, parameters etc in a concise fashion in the 'history tree'. This will translate into user speed. GH's canvas is a bit more freeform. I suppose the info is all there and linked, so a bit of re-jigging is easy. Also, see how T-Flex can even embed sliders and other parameter input boxes into the model itself. Pretty handy/fast to understand, which also means more speed.
True. As long as you keep the browser pane/specification tree organized and easy to query.
:)
Would love to understand what you did by sketching.
I'll start by showing what was done years ago in the Inventor model, and then share with you what I did in GH, but in another post.
Let's use one of the beams as an example:
We can isolate this component for clarity.
Notice that I've highlighted the sectional sketch with dimensions, and the point of reference, which is in relation to the CL of the column which the beam bears on. The orientation and location of the beam is already set by underlying geometry.
Here's a perspective view of the same:
The extent of the beam was also driven by reference geometry, 2 planes offset from the beam's XY plane, driven by parameters from another underlying file which serves as a parameter container:
Reference axes and points are present for all other components, here are some of them:
It starts getting cluttered if you see the reference planes as well:
Is I mentioned earlier, over time we've found better ways to define and associate geometry, parameters, manage design change, improving the efficiency of parametric models. But this model is a fair representation of a basic modeling approach, and since an Inventor-GH comparison is like comparing apples and oranges anyways, this model can be used to understand the differences and similarities, for those interested.
I haven't even gotten to your latest post yet, I will eventually.…
Added by Santiago Diaz at 10:36am on February 26, 2011
he picture (4).
Previously, I had a problem with generating intersections between the two directions of the beams, but a colleague helped me by extending beams, so there was no problem with lines of intersection. But this solution has generated curl (5) at the highest vertex geometry, which I ignored in order to repair it before printing, perhaps this mean my problem with my beam spread properly. Only when the beams is 19, does not jump no problem, but I still can not distribute them properly.
(1)
(2)
(3)
(4)
(5)
I tried to show as simply as possible by removing or signing my code in GHX file.
Thank you in advance for your help
…
GH, same as using sweep2 command in Rhino.
The one on the right is what I got so far (the output smooth our the kink of the original rails). Basically I am just following the methods provided by sdk sample: http://wiki.mcneel.com/developer/sdksamples/sweep2 .
The following is the function I copy and use directly from the SDK sample. By using this function, I can generate the sweep surface at right. But I want to have is the one in the middle with the kink edges. Can anyone show me how and where to modify he settings? I guess some sweep arguments need to be changed? I have try couples, such m_simplify, m_bSimpleSweep, m_bSameHeight, m_rebuild_count... but still cannot find a right combination for this function to output the sweep surface I want. Any suggestions or helps are very appreciated. Thanks for your help and time on this.
'Sweep2 function'----------------
Sub Sweep2( ByVal Rail1 As IOnCurve, _
ByVal Rail2 As IOnCurve, _
ByVal sCurves As List(Of IOnCurve), _
ByRef Sweep2_Breps As List(Of OnBrep))
'Define a new class that contains sweep2 arguments
Dim args As New MArgsRhinoSweep2
'Set the 2 rails
Dim Edge1 As New MRhinoPolyEdge
Dim Edge2 As New MRhinoPolyEdge
Edge1.Append(Rail1.DuplicateCurve())
Edge2.Append(Rail2.DuplicateCurve())
'Add rails to sweep arguments
args.m_rail_curves(0) = Edge1
args.m_rail_curves(1) = Edge2
args.m_bClosed = False
Dim section_curves As New List(Of OnCurve)
'Loop through sections to set parameters
For Each Section As IOnCurve In sCurves
Dim sCurve As OnCurve = Section.DuplicateCurve()
section_curves.Add(sCurve)
Dim t0 As Double = 0
If Not Edge1.GetClosestPoint(sCurve.PointAtStart(), t0) Then
If Not Edge1.GetClosestPoint(sCurve.PointAtEnd(), t0) Then
Dim s As Double = 0
sCurve.GetNormalizedArcLengthPoint(0.5, s)
Edge1.GetClosestPoint(sCurve.PointAt(s), t0)
End If
End If
args.m_rail_params(0).Append(t0)
Dim t1 As Double = 0
If Not Edge2.GetClosestPoint(sCurve.PointAtStart(), t1) Then
If Not Edge2.GetClosestPoint(sCurve.PointAtEnd(), t1) Then
Dim s As Double = 0
sCurve.GetNormalizedArcLengthPoint(0.5, s)
Edge2.GetClosestPoint(sCurve.PointAt(s), t1)
End If
End If
args.m_rail_params(1).Append(t1)
Next
'Set shapes
args.m_shape_curves = section_curves.ToArray
'Set the rest of parameters
args.m_simplify = 0
args.m_bSimpleSweep = False
args.m_bSameHeight = False
args.m_rebuild_count = -1 'Sample point count for rebuilding shapes
args.m_refit_tolerance = RMA.Rhino.RhUtil.RhinoApp.ActiveDoc.AbsoluteTolerance()
args.m_sweep_tolerance = RMA.Rhino.RhUtil.RhinoApp.ActiveDoc.AbsoluteTolerance()
args.m_angle_tolerance = RMA.Rhino.RhUtil.RhinoApp.ActiveDoc.AngleToleranceRadians()
Dim sBreps() As OnBrep = Nothing
If (RhUtil.RhinoSweep2(args, sBreps)) Then
For Each b As OnBrep In sBreps
Sweep2_Breps.Add(b)
Next
End If
Return
End Sub
…
ARRAY with certain spatial order or mechanism under consideration of ecological design. The evaluation and definition of “ARRAY” are open to applicants’ imaginations. While the term “ecological” is subjected to many definitions: social, ecological, sustainable, its re-evaluations are open to students’ interpretations. Entrants are free to choose or make site, real or virtual.
ELIGIBILITY
Open to international students in the fields of architecture and design related disciplines from an accredited four-year or five-year architecture program. Graduates with certificate in 2011 are accepted. Teamed collaboration consisting of no more than 3 students in the above mentioned fields is permitted. Works submitted must be of applicants’ original works. Works done through school studios are accepted, but limited to 2011 term.
ENTRY FEE
Free
DEADLINES
Online Registration deadline: Oct 30th, 2011, 17:00 Taipei Time
(Upon completing registration, applicant will receive a registration number via email.)
Submission deadline: email sent by Nov 3rd, 2011, 17:00 Taipei Time
SUBMISSION REQUIREMENTS
This is a digital competition and no hardcopies are necessary. Entrants must submit their proposal via email no later than Nov 3rd, 2011 17:00 (Taipei Time) to the following email address:
hojenhwang@mail.ntut.edu.tw
The project submission must contain the following files:
1. Two A1 boards in portrait format (594mm x 841mm), with identification number at the upper right corner. Names and other identifying information are not allowed on front side of the boards. The resolution of the boards must be 300dpi, RGB mode and saved as JPG files.. The files must be named after the registration number followed by the board number. For example: 03956-board1.jpg and 03956-board2.jpg.
2. A DOC file containing the project discription (600 words max). This file must be named after the registration number followed by the word "discription". For example: 03956-discription.doc.
3. A scan of statement form. This file must be named after the registration number followed by the word "statement_scan". For example: 03956-statement_scan.jpg.
4. All the files must be placed in a ZIP folder named after your registration number. For example: 03956.zip. Size of the ZIP folder is suggested to be less than 15mb, while size more than 25mb will not be accepted
AWARDS
(1) Gold Prize winner will be awarded TWD 60,000 and a trophy.
(2) Silver Prize winner will be awarded TWD 30,000 and a trophy
(3) Bronze Prize winner will be awarded TWD 15,000 and a trophy
(4) Honorable Mention winners will be awarded TWD 5,000 and a merit certificate
Winners will be announced and notified by mid of Nov, 2011.
JURY
Two stages of open jury. Details to be announced
PUBLIC EXHIBITION
Nov 13, 2011~ Nov 18, 2011 at NTUT, Taipei
…
Added by Yu-Min Su at 2:03am on September 23, 2011
; GH, this one came out and rhinoceros is disappear...like this
it said " Rhinoceros5's working is stopped. because some problems occured so Rhinoceros5 can't work correctly no longer " then I have no choice but terminate Rhinoceros.
There are some discussion about RhinoIronPython installing numpy though, no one has same problem like me. so Please somebody tell me!!
and one more question...just in case, I tried to install numpy into ironPython2.7
C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7>ipy "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\ironpkg-1.0.0..py" --installBootstrapping: c:\users\owner\appdata\local\temp\tmp2nand1\ironpkg-1.0.0-1.egg 118 KB [.................................................................]
C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7>ironpkg -hUsage: ironpkg-script.py [options] [name] [version]
.
.
.
C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7>ironpkg scipyWrote configuration file: C:\Users\owner\.ironpkg=============================================================================Traceback (most recent call last): File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\ironpkg-script.py", line 10, in <module> File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\lib\site-packages\enstaller\main.py", line 364, in main File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\lib\site-packages\enstaller\indexed_repo\chain.py", line 27, in __init__ File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\lib\site-packages\enstaller\indexed_repo\chain.py", line 67, in add_repo File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\lib\site-packages\enstaller\utils.py", line 92, in write_data_from_url File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\Lib\urllib2.py", line 435, in open File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\Lib\urllib2.py", line 407, in _call_chain File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\Lib\urllib2.py", line 654, in http_error_302 File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\Lib\httplib.py", line 1261, in __init__ File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\lib\site-packages\enstaller\utils.py", line 73, in open_url File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\Lib\urllib2.py", line 154, in urlopen File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\Lib\urllib2.py", line 547, in http_response File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\Lib\urllib2.py", line 467, in error File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\Lib\urllib2.py", line 429, in open File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\Lib\urllib2.py", line 446, in _open File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\Lib\urllib2.py", line 407, in _call_chain File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\Lib\urllib2.py", line 1240, in https_open File "C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7\Lib\urllib2.py", line 1167, in do_openAttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute '_create_default_https_context'
C:\Program Files (x86)\IronPython 2.7>
how can I deal with this error?…
ort and export from the images below and also from the HELP file of DB in attachments (Page 71: Importing Geometric Data; Page 78-80: Import 3 - D CAD Data). In their HELP file, they mention about "import geometric data".
However, regarding the input of schedules, loads, constructions and etc., DB normally uses "Component " and "Template" (Page 29: Templates And Components; Page 591: Templates; Page 533: Components). "Templates" are databases of typical generic data, including Activity templates, Construction templates, Glazing templates, Facade templates, HVAC templates, Location Templates, and etc. "Component " are databases of individual data items (e.g. a construction type, material, window pane).
Both "Component " and "Template" are allowed to be imported and exported by using "Import / Export library data" command (.ddf format - DB Database File; Page 734: Import Components/Templates, Export Components/Templates). DB also allows us to build up our own libraries of templates and components (Page 731: Library Management; Page 733: Template Library Management).
In order to import both geometric information and other information related to schedules, loads, constructions and etc. from GH to BD, we supposed the following two ways:
1. GH(HB+GB) --> gbXML (both geometric and "Component " and "Template" information) --> DB
This is the way we most prefer. We did see information related to schedules, loads, constructions encoded in the gbXML file generated by GB, but still do not know the reason why DB did not take this information (I also mentioned this in Q6 within the gh file). We assume this might because the gbXML file we create encodes the schedules based on a different template / schema than the one DB expects. We also post this question to the DB forum for help.
(http://www.designbuilder.co.uk/component/option,com_forum/Itemid,25/page,viewtopic/p,13755/#13755)
2. GH(HB+GB) --> gbXML (geometric information only) + .ddf ("Component " and "Template" information only) --> DB
If the first way doesn't work and DB only takes geometric information from the gbXML, then we might think of the other way - generating the .ddf files from GH(HB+GB) to pass the schedule, load and construction information to DB.
I was wondering if it is feasible for HB and GB to have this function? And what is your suggestion to achieve this?
In addition, we notice that DB can export XML files (not gbXML), so we are trying to figure out if DB also accepts / reads the XML file. If so, we might be able to convert the gbXML (with both geometric and schedule information) to XML. What do you think about that?
Thank you again for all your help!
Best,
Ding
DB import
DB export
Template libraries
Component libraries
…
y using the Honeybee_Update Honeybee component.
The video below (best viewed in full-screen mode) provides an idea of what these components are capable of being used for:
The video below shows how these components can be used in an existing Honeybee project (for additional links please open this video in youtube):
I have uploaded two examples as Hydra files that show how these components can be used for grid-point and image-based simulations:
Example1 : Grid Point Calculations
Example2: Image based simulation
Finally, a more esoteric application is demonstrated in this video:
These components are still in the beta-testing stage. Some of the limitations of the components are:
1. Only Type C photometry IES files are supported at present.
2. Rhino is likely to get sluggish if there are too many luminaires (i.e. light fixtures) present in a scene.
3. Due to the spectral limitations of the ray-tracing software (RADIANCE), simulations involving color mixing might not be physically realizable.
Additional details about photometric and spectral calculations are probably an overkill for this forum. However, I'd be glad to answer any related questions. Please report any bugs or request new features either on this forum or on Github.
Mostapha, Leland Curtis, Reinhardt Swart and Dr. Richard Mistrick provided valuable inputs during the development of these components.
Thanks,
Sarith
Update 16th January 2017:
An example with some new components and bug fixes since the initial release announcement can be found here
…