DP ($$$ aside), GC, and Grasshopper. Arthur’s original question is very important
and the exact question (and hopefully answer) I was hoping to find on a
forum.
“How to take intelligent 3D parametric generative design models (scripting, etc.) into 2D documents?" Or, deliver the 3D design for evaluation, bid, construction, etc.
I am intrigued by Jon’s comments in the same thread and would like to know how I can learn more about the process (and
pitfalls) of turning over a 3D digital generative models to a contractor/fabricator.
Are there any industry guidelines established I could use as a reference to guide our firm through this type of uncharted territory?
Arthur’s question is very reminiscent of 10 years ago when I was frustrated with the amount of time spent on the development of a 3D model design (physical and/or virtual) only to have to wipe the table clean and start the process all over again in 2D in order to document the project for delivery. From this I jumped head first into BIM and Revit, vowing never to go back to unintelligent 2D line work. I am now working on Bentley software (v8i: Microstation and Bentley Architecture) with the access and desire to venture into Generative Components. I am very intrigued by Rhino/Grasshopper primarily with the apparent ease of use and available resources assisting in the learning process – something not really available with Bentley.
In hindsight, as I am doing my software research I think the current use of Revit and BA (Bentley Architecture) are more of a “bridge”
between the past (decades of digital 2D work, i.e. AutoCAD) and where hopefully
we all will be someday in the near future (100% 3D modeling, i.e. Digital
Project??). Without having the experience
it would appear that DP/CATIA (PLM software) are closer to this than any other
type of software. As complicated as the
industry standards are for the automobile and airline industry, I feel we
(architectural industry and others) are heading in a similar direction with
total understanding (PLM/ Evidence Based Design) of a design (a whole other topic). If anything I think the market will begin to
demand it sooner or later.
Gehry (DP) article NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/business/11gehry.html
I know these type of broad discussions (software vs. software) can be blown out of proportion on forums, but I am would like to read
the pulse of those who are already in the trenches (using Grasshopper, CATIA, Digital Project, Generative Components, others??) and hear your thoughts. Just as valuable would be other threads,
industry articles/reviews of 3D parametric generative design software.
Thanks,
Boyd…
greatly appreciate it!!
You can write the number of the question and write your answer next to it, example:
1) a
2) c
3) a) Washington University in St. Louis
4) 2 weeks (1week+1week shipping)
5) 130
6) b
7) b
The survey questions are as follows:
1)
Did you 3D print before?
5)
How much did it cost (in dollars)?
a.
Yes, for a school project
a.
Between 20 & 50
b.
Yes, for a personal project
b.
Between 50 & 80
c.
Between 80 & 120
2)
Print size
d.
Please specify if otherwise: _____ dollars
a.
Between 2 & 6 cubic inches
b.
Between 6 & 12 cubic inches
6)
Do you think the price was expensive?
c.
Between 12 & 20 cubic inches
a.
Not at all
d.
Please specify if otherwise: ____cubic inches
b.
A little bit expensive
c.
Very expensive
3)
Where did you print your object?
a.
School
7)
Were you satisfied with the printed object?
b.
Outside school: _________________
a.
Yes, it was a great print without problems
b.
Not bad, some issues
4)
How long did it take to print?
c.
I was not satisfied, very bad quality
a.
___ days
b.
___ weeks
Thank you very much to all!!
PS: If you did many 3D prints, you can post multiple answers.
Wassef…
whole design intent, but this is what Inventor is good at. The way it packages bits of 'scripted' components into 'little models' that can be stored and re-assembled is central to MCAD working.
The Inventor model shown is almost 5 years old. We don't model like that any more, however it does offer a good idea of general MCAD modeling approaches.
iParts is useful in certain situations, it could've been useful in the above model, its usefulness is often in function of the quantity of variants/configurations.
So much is scripted in GH, maybe it should also be possible to script/define/constrain/assist the placement/gluing of the results?
...
Starting point: I think we are talking across purposes. AFAIK, the solving sequence of GH's scripted components is fixed. It won't do circular dependencies... without a fight. The inter-component dependencies not 'managed' like constraints solvers do for MCAD apps.
Components and assemblies are individual files in MCAD.
Placement of these within assemblies in MCAD is a product of matrix transforms and persistent constraints. There is no bi-directional link, the link is unidirectional (downflow only), because of the use of proxies.
Consequently, scripting the placement of components is irrelevant in GH, unless you decide that each component needs to be contained in its own separate file.
This also brings up the point that generating components and assemblies in MCAD is not as straightforward. In iParts and iAssemblies, each configuration needs to be generated as a "child" (the individual file needs to be created for each child) before those children can be used elsewhere.
You notice the dilemma, if you generate 100 parts, and then you realize you only need 20, you've created 80 extra parts which you have no need for, thus generating wasteful data that may cause file management issues later on.
GH remains in a transient world, and when you decide to bake geometry (if you need to at all), you can do that in one Rhino file, and save it as the state of the design at that given moment. Very convenient for design, though unacceptable for most non-digital manufacturing methods, which greatly limits Rhino's use for manufacturing unless you combine it with an MCAD app.
One of the reasons why the distributed file approach makes perfect sense in MCAD, is that in industry you deal with a finite set of objects. Generative tools are usually not a requirement. Most mechanical engineers, product engineers and machinists would never have any use for that.
The other thing that MCAD apps like Inventor have, is the 'structured' interface that offers up all that setting out information like the coordinate systems, work planes, parameters etc in a concise fashion in the 'history tree'. This will translate into user speed. GH's canvas is a bit more freeform. I suppose the info is all there and linked, so a bit of re-jigging is easy. Also, see how T-Flex can even embed sliders and other parameter input boxes into the model itself. Pretty handy/fast to understand, which also means more speed.
True. As long as you keep the browser pane/specification tree organized and easy to query.
:)
Would love to understand what you did by sketching.
I'll start by showing what was done years ago in the Inventor model, and then share with you what I did in GH, but in another post.
Let's use one of the beams as an example:
We can isolate this component for clarity.
Notice that I've highlighted the sectional sketch with dimensions, and the point of reference, which is in relation to the CL of the column which the beam bears on. The orientation and location of the beam is already set by underlying geometry.
Here's a perspective view of the same:
The extent of the beam was also driven by reference geometry, 2 planes offset from the beam's XY plane, driven by parameters from another underlying file which serves as a parameter container:
Reference axes and points are present for all other components, here are some of them:
It starts getting cluttered if you see the reference planes as well:
Is I mentioned earlier, over time we've found better ways to define and associate geometry, parameters, manage design change, improving the efficiency of parametric models. But this model is a fair representation of a basic modeling approach, and since an Inventor-GH comparison is like comparing apples and oranges anyways, this model can be used to understand the differences and similarities, for those interested.
I haven't even gotten to your latest post yet, I will eventually.…
Added by Santiago Diaz at 10:36am on February 26, 2011
he picture (4).
Previously, I had a problem with generating intersections between the two directions of the beams, but a colleague helped me by extending beams, so there was no problem with lines of intersection. But this solution has generated curl (5) at the highest vertex geometry, which I ignored in order to repair it before printing, perhaps this mean my problem with my beam spread properly. Only when the beams is 19, does not jump no problem, but I still can not distribute them properly.
(1)
(2)
(3)
(4)
(5)
I tried to show as simply as possible by removing or signing my code in GHX file.
Thank you in advance for your help
…
Introduction to Grasshopper Videos by David Rutten.
Wondering how to get started with Grasshopper? Look no further. Spend an some time with the creator of Grasshopper, David Rutten, to learn the
ting at multiple geometries in the same location. I simply sorted the list of values and used the Delete Consecutive component. This potentially rearranges the order of values but I don't think that matters in your case. I also threw in an Int component which actually seems to make a difference (try sidestepping it and you will see!).
2-I flattened the output of the mesh component before sending it to union. This ensures that the original mesh is booleaned once with all the components rather than individually with each of the 86 components.
Is this what the result should look like?
One suggestion for future postings: when referencing geometry in rhino, it often helps if you attach your rhino file as well so people don't have to guess where you are starting from.
If you have further questions, just ask ;-)
cbass…
.
Things have been working swimmingly in many areas of the plugin, but one particular problem has been tough to solve. I have two components that are trying to read/write to the same memory at the same time, causing Rhino exceptions and crashes.
The conflicts appear to be happening between two components -- one is a "Layer Events Listener" that reports essentially what type of layer event just happened. The other is a "Set Layer Visibility" component that toggles the visibility of a list of layers.
The code:
public class LayerTools_LayerEventsListener : GH_Component { /// <summary> /// Initializes a new instance of the LayerTools_LayerListener class. /// </summary> public LayerTools_LayerEventsListener() : base("Layer Events Listener", "Layer Listener", "Get granular information about the layer events happening in the Rhino document.", "Squirrel", "Layer Tools") { }
/// <summary> /// Registers all the input parameters for this component. /// </summary> protected override void RegisterInputParams(GH_Component.GH_InputParamManager pManager) { pManager.AddBooleanParameter("Active", "A", "Set to true to listen to layer events in the Rhino document.", GH_ParamAccess.item, false); pManager.AddTextParameter("Exclusions", "E", "Provide a list of exclusions to stop reading specific events (Added, Deleted, Moved, Renamed, Locked, Visibility, Color, Active).", GH_ParamAccess.list); pManager[1].Optional = true; }
/// <summary> /// Registers all the output parameters for this component. /// </summary> protected override void RegisterOutputParams(GH_Component.GH_OutputParamManager pManager) { pManager.AddBooleanParameter("Initialized", "I", "Whether the listener changed from passive to active.", GH_ParamAccess.item); pManager.AddTextParameter("Document Name", "doc", "Name of the Rhino document that is changing.", GH_ParamAccess.item); pManager.AddTextParameter("Layer Path", "path", "Path of the modifed layer.", GH_ParamAccess.item); pManager.AddIntegerParameter("Layer Index", "ID", "Index of the modified layer.", GH_ParamAccess.item); pManager.AddIntegerParameter("Sort Index", "SID", "Sort index of the modified layer.", GH_ParamAccess.item); pManager.AddTextParameter("Event Type", "T", "Type of the modification.", GH_ParamAccess.item); pManager.AddBooleanParameter("Added", "A", "If the layer has been added.", GH_ParamAccess.item); pManager.AddBooleanParameter("Deleted", "D", "If the layer has been deleted.", GH_ParamAccess.item); pManager.AddBooleanParameter("Moved", "M", "If the layer has been moved.", GH_ParamAccess.item); pManager.AddBooleanParameter("Renamed", "R", "If the layer has been renamed.", GH_ParamAccess.item); pManager.AddBooleanParameter("Locked", "L", "If the layer locked setting has changed.", GH_ParamAccess.item); pManager.AddBooleanParameter("Visibility", "V", "If the layer's visibility has changed.", GH_ParamAccess.item); pManager.AddBooleanParameter("Color", "C", "If the layer's color has changed.", GH_ParamAccess.item); pManager.AddBooleanParameter("Active", "Act", "If the active layer has changed.", GH_ParamAccess.item); }
/// <summary> /// This is the method that actually does the work. /// </summary> /// <param name="DA">The DA object is used to retrieve from inputs and store in outputs.</param> protected override void SolveInstance(IGH_DataAccess DA) { bool active = false; List<string> exclusions = new List<string>();
DA.GetData(0, ref active); DA.GetDataList(1, exclusions);
RhinoDoc thisDoc = null;
bool initialize = false;
string dName = null; string activePath = null; int layerIndex = -1; int sortIndex = -1; string eventType = null; bool added = false; bool deleted = false; bool moved = false; bool renamed = false; bool locked = false; bool visibility = false; bool color = false; bool current = false;
if (active) { thisDoc = RhinoDoc.ActiveDoc;
initialize = (!previouslyActive) ? true : false;
RhinoDoc.LayerTableEvent -= RhinoDoc_LayerTableEvent; RhinoDoc.LayerTableEvent += RhinoDoc_LayerTableEvent; previouslyActive = true;
} else {
RhinoDoc.LayerTableEvent -= RhinoDoc_LayerTableEvent; previouslyActive = false; }
if (ev != null) { dName = ev.Document.Name; layerIndex = ev.LayerIndex; eventType = ev.EventType.ToString();
if (!exclusions.Contains("Active")) { if (ev.EventType.ToString() == "Current") { // active layer has just been changed current = true; }
}
if (!exclusions.Contains("Moved")) { if (ev.EventType.ToString() == "Sorted") { // active layer has just been changed moved = true; }
}
if (!exclusions.Contains("Added")) { if (ev.EventType.ToString() == "Added") { // layer has just been added activePath = ev.NewState.FullPath; added = true; }
}
if (!exclusions.Contains("Active")) { if (ev.EventType.ToString() == "Deleted") { // layer has just been added
deleted = true; } }
if (ev.EventType.ToString() == "Modified") { // layer has been modified activePath = ev.NewState.FullPath;
//skip sortindex eventType = ev.EventType.ToString();
if (ev.OldState != null && ev.NewState != null) { if (!exclusions.Contains("Locked")) { if (ev.OldState.IsLocked != ev.NewState.IsLocked) locked = true;
} if (!exclusions.Contains("Visibility")) { if (ev.OldState.IsVisible != ev.NewState.IsVisible) visibility = true; }
if (!exclusions.Contains("Moved")) { if (ev.OldState.ParentLayerId != ev.NewState.ParentLayerId) moved = true; }
//if (ev.OldState.SortIndex != ev.NewState.SortIndex) moved = true; if (!exclusions.Contains("Renamed")) { if (ev.OldState.Name != ev.NewState.Name) renamed = true; }
if (!exclusions.Contains("Color")) { if (ev.OldState.Color != ev.NewState.Color) color = true; } }
} }
DA.SetData(0, initialize); DA.SetData(1, dName); DA.SetData(2, activePath); DA.SetData(3, layerIndex); DA.SetData(4, sortIndex); DA.SetData(5, eventType); DA.SetData(6, added); DA.SetData(7, deleted); DA.SetData(8, moved); DA.SetData(9, renamed); DA.SetData(10, locked); DA.SetData(11, visibility); DA.SetData(12, color); DA.SetData(13, current);
}
static bool previouslyActive = false; Rhino.DocObjects.Tables.LayerTableEventArgs ev = null;
void RhinoDoc_LayerTableEvent(object sender, Rhino.DocObjects.Tables.LayerTableEventArgs e) { ev = e;this.ExpireSolution(true); }
And for the layer visibility component:
public LayerTools_SetActiveLayer() : base("Set Active Layer", "SetActiveLayer", "Set the active layer in the Rhino document.", "Squirrel", "Layer Tools") { }
/// <summary> /// Registers all the input parameters for this component. /// </summary> protected override void RegisterInputParams(GH_Component.GH_InputParamManager pManager) { pManager.AddBooleanParameter("Active", "A", "Set to true to change the active layer in Rhino.", GH_ParamAccess.item, false); pManager.AddTextParameter("Path", "P", "Full path of the layer to be activated.", GH_ParamAccess.item); }
/// <summary> /// Registers all the output parameters for this component. /// </summary> protected override void RegisterOutputParams(GH_Component.GH_OutputParamManager pManager) { pManager.AddIntegerParameter("Layer ID", "ID", "Index of layer that has been activated.", GH_ParamAccess.item); pManager.AddBooleanParameter("Status", "St", "True when the layer has been activated.", GH_ParamAccess.item); }
/// <summary> /// This is the method that actually does the work. /// </summary> /// <param name="DA">The DA object is used to retrieve from inputs and store in outputs.</param> protected override void SolveInstance(IGH_DataAccess DA) { bool active = false; string path = "";
if (!DA.GetData(0, ref active)) return; if (!DA.GetData(1, ref path)) return;
int layer_index = -1; bool status = false;
if (path != null) {
Rhino.RhinoDoc doc = Rhino.RhinoDoc.ActiveDoc; Rhino.DocObjects.Tables.LayerTable layertable = doc.Layers;
layer_index = layertable.FindByFullPath(path, true);
if (layer_index > 0) { // if exists RhinoDoc.ActiveDoc.Layers.SetCurrentLayerIndex(layer_index, true); status = true; } }
DA.SetData(0, layer_index); DA.SetData(1, status); }
Now originally I was getting exceptions when changing multiple layers' visibility properties, which would cause the Event Listener to fire and try to read the Visibility property before the memory has been released by the Set Layer Visibility component. That led me to add an "Exceptions" input, that would allow me to disable the reading of Visibility events at the source in the Layer Events listener. That helped me manage about 95% of the crashes I was getting, but I still get strange crashes in other event properties, even when that property shouldn't be affected. For instance, I am getting a crash here on the Name property in the event from the delegate function, even though I am only changing Visibility at any one time:
I have a few ideas but they all seem pretty hacky. One is to try to set a flag that is readable by any component in the plugin -- so that the event listener can see if a "set" component is currently running and abort before causing an exception. The other is creating a delay in the event listener, somthing like 200ms, to allow any set components to finish what they are doing before reading the event. Neither seems super ideal.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Marc
…