Canopée des Halles de Paris_Complex covering systems

Comment

Comment by BLANC Aurélien on October 25, 2011 at 4:30pm

hello
an advanced study and explanation of what I was drafted.
it is in the hands of people who would like them and I agreed to circulate and not disturb my clients.
Although there's plenty to say on the IFC file.
Suite I hope in the very near future.

Comment by Jacques HABABOU on October 23, 2011 at 5:49am

Bonjour,

Comme le nom de mon entreprise a été cité dans ces échanges, je précise que le post d'Aurélien est de son unique et de sa stricte initiative personnelle.

Rhinoforyou n'a aucunement souhaité ou suggéré ce type d'échanges, ni sur le fond ni sur la forme.

Je suis disponible pour toute rencontre apaisée et constructive avec tous les intéressés,

Jacques HABABOU
Directeur de Rhinoforyou

As my company name has been mentioned in these exchanges, I inform that the Aurélien 'post is from his strict and personal initiative.
Rhinoforyou, in no way, do not want this type of exchange, or the substance or on the form.

I am available for any meeting soothed and constructive with all interested parties

 

Jacques HABABOU

Rhinoforyou'Director

Comment by Matteo Lo Prete on October 22, 2011 at 7:31pm

Dear Aurélien, I just would like to add a couple of things to the answer provided by Mr. Bonora, as owner of this personal page and author of this post/album.

 

Firstly I would specify that the Canopée project, considering its complexity and dimension, required a wide series of IFC files, associated to a specific database of pdf documentations. When I read about your mention “the IFC file generate by DECODE”, the only thing I can imagine is that you grabbed a single file belonging to the hierarchy and probably you didn’t really understand the structure of the whole project database. As Valerio Bonora asked, I’m curios to understand what kind of professional relationship brings together a RhinoForYou trainer with one of the companies that participated to this public procurement. If this relationship doesn’t exist, please let me suggest you to consider the legal implications that your action may produce.

 

Secondly, reading your phrase “may be i could remodelize all the projet, but in few month not like DECODE, with real frabication constraint, not theoric”, I believe that you have no ideas of the complexity of this project and the series of difficulties that all the participants to the PRO phase met during its development, until the delivery of the procurement documentation.
During the development of the project 12 people were dedicated for 6 months just to generate the model. Do you really believe to be able to do the same work all alone in a shorter period?
Probably, as a designer, you are not confident with the phases, relationships, processes and problems which characterize the development of such complex architectural project. Honestly, I cannot understand how you can affirm to be able to cover this work package without any support.

Thirdly, under a merely logical point of view, how can you imagine to find people so proud about their results if they, as you describe, are going to present/represent a “shame”? As Mr. Bonora affirmed, construction companies appreciated the result that we proposed to them and this fact actually distinguishes our reality from your assumptions.

 

Finally, even if you based your evaluation on a single file of the whole database that composes the Canopée project, even if you probably used this file for purposes that differ from those it was generated for, and even if you met a single bug or a mistake into this file, let me say that your post does not represent a professional approach to reporting and/or debugging.
With your negative comment you didn’t allowed us to understand and evaluate the problem, and furthermore to understand where the problems comes from: and this last information, which is still missing, represents the unstable basis of your superficial comment.
Taking distance from your action, I believe that one of the most important concepts associated to a serious and professional approach of a single member into a wider community consists into the ability to accept and/or report each other’s mistakes. Reading your post I don’t feel you as part of this concept, not at all.

Best regards,

 

Matteo Lo Prete, MScArch.

 

Comment by Matteo Lo Prete on October 22, 2011 at 6:34pm

Dear Mr. BLANC, thank you for your message.

Considering the importance of its contents and your statements I forwarded a notification to Mr. Valerio Bonora, president and co-founder of the company DECODE sas.

Please find below his official answer, in English and in French (original version).

Best regards,

 

Matteo Lo Prete, MScArch.

 

English version

“Probably it is necessary that you consider how most type of objects are not categorized by the IFC, considering a contemporary subject. Beyond your appreciation, that we consider as really important, we relativize the significant feedback appreciations communicated by those subjects to whom the IFC was referred: the construction companies.
Taking distance from your comments, a little bit superficial and youthful, we can affirm that: the quantities, data on products, contextualization of drawings, calculations, etc. distinguish the work that we did from the partial and poor scenario that you describe.
This result has been particularly appreciated by the companies who had to estimate a complex project in 3 months. Whatever you may say, this is a fact recognized into our field already: this first public procurement (Loi n° 85-704 du 12 juillet 1985 “MOP - Maîtrise d'Ouvrage Publique”) offered estimation procedures never reached for such complex project. This also means that, finally, the estimation and the offer negotiated by the companies respected the client’s goal. This is for your information.
I wish to ask a question to you, Rhino trainer at RhinoForYou: how and in which conditions you accessed to constriction companies’ tipoffs?”

 

Original French version

“Il faut probablement que vous considériez que la plupart des typologies d’objet ne sont pas catégorisées par les IFC du fait du travail sur un objet contemporain. Par delà votre appréciation, qui compte beaucoup a nos yeux, nous avons pour les relativiser le retour des appréciations réellement importante à nos yeux, puisque ce sont celle à qui étaient adressés les IFC: les entreprises. Bien différente de votre réaction, un peu cutanée et juvénile, nous pouvons vous dire que: les quantitatifs, les données relative des produits, la contextualisation des pièces graphique, notes de calculs, etc distingue ce que nous avons fait de l'état partiel et appauvri que vous relatez. Ce résultat a été particulièrement appréciés par les entreprises qui ont eu à chiffrer un projet complexe en 3 mois. Quoi que vous en disiez il est un fait reconnu dans la profession désormais: ce premier appel d'offre public lois MOP a permis des conditions d'évaluations jamais atteintes pour un ouvrage complexe. Ce qui veut dire que l'estimation et le prix négocié pour les entreprises sont rentrée in fine dans les objectifs de la MOU. Voilà pour votre information.
J'aurais souhaité vous adresser une question, à vous qui êtes formateur Rhino chez RhinoForYou: comment et dans quelles conditions avez vous eu accès a des donnés entreprises?”

Comment by BLANC Aurélien on October 19, 2011 at 10:25am

Hi, i open the IFC file generate by DECODE, and it a really bad developpement, because it's just mesh export in IFC, no real IFC export with lot of information.

all the development is poor, may be i could remodelize all the projet, but in few month not like DECODE, with real frabication constraint, not theoric.

Thos IFC model is poor and it's shame to see this.

Comment by Matteo Lo Prete on October 9, 2011 at 12:05pm

For further information do not hesitate to visit DECODE or ask to Matteo Lo Prete.